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My GloB's avatar

Thanks for this sobering account of stoicism as presented by some.

There are 2 basic points that surprise me in the 5 practices because of what they say about what humans are meant to achieve with their conduct.

I've not read Piglucci's book but have had a couple of debates with him online on the back of his Notes on stoicism.

The first point relates to the total absence in the 5 practices of any mention of the gods in so far as they were, in Epicurus' philosophy, the holders of ethical values humans should emulate. The gods' ethics are the foundational tenets of the 5 practices themselves. Not withstanding that, I'm not too concerned about this point because whether these practices are best modelled by the gods' behaviours or not, it is for humans to put them to practice.

The second point is more relevant because it seems to me that, in all their glorious array, the 5 practices only amount to what humans must accomplish anyway out of necessity first and, more importantly, as the bare minimum in order to survive in the world with a reasonable level of tranquility (both internal and external).

Number 1. What else does one do daily but to access and assess the best available evidence when making decisions within available margins, that is, of available personal time and ability? We all do that. Some do it better than others I guess. But we all do our best. So, number 1 is 'do your best'.

Number 2. Who does not act on what they can actually act based on their "judgments, decisions to act or not to act, and chosen values"? We all do, all the time. As to whether externals (reputation, etc) are more or less important to the individual, doesn't that depend on the person's best judgement too? So, number 2 is 'be your best'.

Number 3. Don't we all work to fulfill our duties (whether prompted by love or responsibility) in what regards our inherited relationships: "father or mother, son or daughter, friend, colleague, and so on"? What's so special about this. If we cannot do that for those we know, what can be expected of us elsewhere? So, number 3 is 'do your best for others too'.

Number 4. Can anyone act or behave better than by the virtues or positive attributes they consider to be the best? Aren't the "cardinal virtues of wisdom, courage, justice, and temperance" applied relatively differently depending on the circumstances one faces and the people one deals with? Don't we all do that to the best of our knowledge and ability, all the time, despite frequent failure? So, number 4 is 'be good'. (Can't help thinking this practice is closely related to belief in the gods' ethical supremacy not mentioned in any of the practices).

Number 5. Again, does not everyone try to do that anyway (of course there are exceptions)? What is a universal family? The concept refers to some idealistic human formulation totally disassociated from the reality we live in. Regardless of "nationality, ethnicity, creed, gender", really? If the 'foreingness' of Buddhism, for example, represents such an obstacle, can it be said the author has achieved his own practice goal? So, number 5 is 'be your best universally''. Again, this ideal leads straight to the heavenly realms where stoics gods are meant to exist. Unless of course, stoic gods are but ideas or mental conceptions.

In any case, such stoic aspirational practices seem to me (apart from number 5) to aim for the very minimum in human behaviour or a 'standard practice', and, as such, do not seem to me to be specific to either stoicism or any other ethical system.

I also sense there is a clear tendency in the context expressed through these practices to 'run away' from God, gods, or spiritual guidance in general.

Perhaps, I'm being to hard, or too stoical.

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Matt Bianca's avatar

The Seneca quote is a great way to frame the discussion. Do you think the modern popularity of Stoicism has more to do with its accessibility rather than any unique philosophical insights?

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