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Matthew Rodriguez's avatar

Good read! I think the Stoics differentiated between internal control and external control, so even if our thoughts are not necessarily “freely chosen” they are still under our control in a way that the weather is not. I’ve heard many say that the Stoics were basically compatibalists, so this may just boil down to a hard determinism vs. compatibalism debate.

I think you’re basically objecting to Stoicism on the grounds of hard determinism if you’re saying that the Dichotomy of Control is wrong because we don’t control our thoughts. Ironically, even though I call myself a Stoic…I am a hard determinist.

I guess I sort of just interpret Stoicism as “pro-social behavior (virtue) is the goal of life” and also think that I live a happier life focusing on that and focusing on my internal states than on external goods like wealth. But I am also determined to think that way! So there is no moral blame to go around.

I also tend to think there are multiple valid philosophies of life rather than just one. Stoicism just resonates with me the most. Perhaps this way of thinking is compatible with Stoicism, or perhaps it is not… I would be interested in exploring Buddhist ideas more one day too.

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Stephanie Cullen's avatar

As someone suffering from some seriously extended mental illnesses, I’d have to question the idea that we can control motivation too.

Much like desires and aversions I suspect it is controllable to a point — you can suppress or embrace parts of your sexuality and preferences on a conscious level, though we obviously know quite a lot more about what suppressing sexuality and orientation entirely does to a person. Greece notably had an “acceptable outlet” for homosexuality — pedastry — that perhaps normalised the idea that homosexual desires should be “channelled” into young boys, thus supporting the stoic ideal that such desires are controllable. But when people deviated from this narrow allowance of sexuality, they were as quickly condemned as they would have been in many other ancient anti-gay societies.

Likewise, motivation is controllable but only up to a point. Or rather, it SEEMS within our control, a tool we are consciously using, a state we are skillfully psyching ourselves into. But that is what it is — a state, a fluctuating reading on a meter — and our ability to ‘control’ our motivation is much more about working around our inbuilt response to stimuli which we are constantly refining the circuitry of.

But psychology would suggest that motivation, like desire, is something we think we have a lot more control over than we do.

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